Tovrea DNA results
I am not going to pretend that I fully understand all this information, as yet.
The Genographic Project (Information on DNA)
Family Tree DNA (Tovrea/Tovery Surname Project
In a message dated 4/3/2008 5:36:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Waahoo! We have a match!
And without a doubt, the Tovreas that belong to the Arizona line (PTovrea)
and the Tovreas that belong to the Illinois line (mine and DTovrea) have
matched 100% in all of the first 12 markers. Of course I knew they would,
but I have never been able to find the documentation to prove that we all
came from the same grandfather way back. Now, the DNA proves the
relationship and no other documentation is needed. Thank you all! You have
made my day, actually my year!.
Next step is dig out "Old Thomas" family and find as much as we can about
him. He is our stepping stone for the leap to Europe and when PTovreas DNA
markers have been processed we'll see where that leads us.
Enjoy your ancestors!
I do apologize for my long absence! These past few years have been a huge
turning point for my family. Words like COPD, Dementia, Super Nuclear Palsy
(new to me but a very devastating disease), blood clots again, Asthma,
Cancer. It seems like our family is now a medical dictionary. My mother
and father-in-law are both in facilities – different ones; one has Dementia
and the other the Super Nuclear Palsy that is advancing too rapidly (This is
what Dudley Moore had). My mother-in-law is trying to live at home on her
own after 55 years. So my husband and I spend most our free time going from
one location to the next visiting and dealing with insurance, medical forms,
prescriptions and all that other joyful stuff that goes along with the
aged.. I was diagnosed with COPD last winter and was oxygen for a while,
but am doing much better now and am off the O2 thank the Lord.
In spite of all this however, I have been able to do some research, but not
much, and have not made any new discoveries as of yet. I am looking for a
European County that has a population that speaks and reads the German
Language in the mid 1700’s and that is not necessarily Germany. This is an
There are some new DNA results however that are sort of surprising so I will
write about those results and what they mean for us. The new and updated
results from DT of IL and PT of AZ are results of the discovery of new DYS
and the reassigning of those, but our Haplo Type is still R1b1b2. Remember
that Haplo *Type* is like a phone number in your house where everyone uses
and can be reached on the same phone number (land phones of course). The
Haplo *Group* would be the branch of the tree of mankind that this Haplo
Group is associated with – like a prefix to a telephone number. Our Haplo
Group is R1b1 and the added markers just further refine our ancestry to
R1b1b2. People with the same surname & number generally share ancestry
within a few hundred years, but if the surname is not the same, they would
still have a common ancestor, but just further back in time.
If you all remember, the first twelve markers on DT & PT’s DNA test were
identical, meaning we positively have an ancestor in common probably within
200 years. Now with the added markers of DT, the break down is sort of
different and clearer: all 25 markers were identical with the exception of
one marker that showed a 2 point difference. That was in marker 458 which
has been designated as a fast mutating marker. Basically that means that
there was a split at marker 458 by 2 points between DT and PT and that even
though they have a common ancestor, the most recent common ancestor was a
little further back in time.
What this means to us is that the line of DT of IL (which is my line) and
the line of PT of AZ separate PRIOR to Old Thomas Toberry of
DT and my line is probably the descendant of one of Old Thomas’ brother.
This fits in with the Toberry/Tobery line of Maryland. So far I have
identified two brothers and possibly two others: Joshua Tobery of Frederick
Co., MD; Thomas Tobery formerly of Frederick Co., MD and later Anderson Co.,
TN; Possibly Abraham Tovery of PA (found on Rev War Pay Roster - “State of
the Accounts of Lieutenants and Sub Lieutenants of Lancaster County, PA. March
1777 to 15th Feb 1780); and possibly Jacob Tippery also formerly of
Frederick Co., MD and later of PA.
Just a short note about DT and my lineage and the new information: It is
most likely that our line (those Tovreas of IL, IA, CO, OR and WA) began
with Joshua Tobery of MD and next generation was Thomas Tovrea b ca 1797 and
who married Mary McGehee and who settled in McLean Co., IL, and who later
settled in Mahaska Co., IA. This Thomas Tovery/Toberry/Tovrea and Mary
McGehee Toberry used the common naming patterns of: naming the first male
child after the paternal grandfather & the second male child after the
maternal grandfather. So their first son was indeed named Joshua
Toberry/Tovery and the second son was named William – after Mary McGehee’s
father. We also know that Joshua Tobery of Frederick County, MD had two
sons that seemed to disappear after the Rev War. One was John and the other
Thomas (born about the same estimated birth time as ours).
The progenitor of these families was a possibly a Thomas Tovery that is
found in the Index to the Tithables of Loudoun County, Virginia in 1763 and
1765. Also Thomas and his wife Mary witnessed a land deed in 13 Oct 1766, in
Loudoun Co., VA [Remember the Loudon County, VA and Frederick County, MD
connections? The North Western part of Loudoun County VA was German
speaking and was formed by German immigrants that came from MD and PA about
the time of the French and Indian War (1754-63). And this part of Loudoun
was called Germanna.]. If my findings are correct Thomas and Mary went
back to MD and was next found in a book called the “Early lists of Frederick
Countians” (Frederick County, MD), 1765-1775 by F. Edward Wright in
1771-1772. This Thomas then disappears before 1800; but his wife Mary is
listed on the 1800 census for Frederick Co., MD as a female over 45 with one
slave and is living three houses away from Joshua Tobrey. So if this Thomas
is the progenitor of Old Thomas and Joshua then it is he who most likely
immigrated with his family as the family had not assimilated totally by the
late 1700’s and still belonged to a German speaking Church. IF he is not
the progenitor and not related, then we are still looking at a common
ancestor to both Old Thomas Toberry of Anderson Co., TN and Joshua Tobery of
Frederick Co., MD.
I probably have confused all of you with all the Thomas’s, but I will post
the new information on all our Tovrea sites as soon as I can. Again, I
don’t know all the ins and outs of DNA but, if any one has any questions,
let me know and I will see if I can answer then.
I will send out another email shortly regarding the new matches with non
surname people and do some map tracking.
Stay well all of you,
January 3, 2011
Hope your Christmas was good. I trust that your are staying warm and out of this cold streak that is hitting us all.
I received your email and I checked out your new information at famlytreedna. You have 17 exact matches on your 12 marker test, one of which is PT of course. The other matches although exact, they are different surnames. You have an ancestor in common with them, but that ancestor would not be very recent meaning a long long time ago.
On your 24 mark submission you have no exact matches but you have 8 that are 2 genetic distance from your dna - two markers that do not match. Again, they were all different surnames except of PT.
Now we get into the markers themselves. There are some that mutate very fast and some that do not mutate, so although there may be a distance of 2 between you and PT, the markers that were different were those that mutate quickly - possibly within one generation. So even though there is a difference in your markers, your and PT's common ancestor would probably be within 24-28 generations.
Sounds like a lot, but figuring there are about 5 generation to every one hundred years that would put yours and PT's common ancestor in the 1700's.
THAT MATCHES OUR PAPER TRAIL! YES!
So our lineage looks like this: Thomas & Mary Tovery that were found in Loudoun Co., VA on land records in 1745 were the parents of Thomas, Joshua and possibly Jacob and possibly Abraham.
Thomas son of Thomas and Mary Tovery is our Old Thomas of the American Revolution that died in Anderson County, TN and is the progenitor of the AZ group and most Tovreas that went South.
Joshua son of Thomas and Mary, is yours and mine (and all Tovreas that remained in the North - IA, CO, OR, WA), is our ancestor.
After Thomas and Mary were in Loudoun Co., VA., they migrated to Frederick Co., MD about 1780 and that is where we pick up there trail again and that is where the lines separated.
I will be writing and posting soon some of my speculations as to why the family split: religion, slavery were big factors.
Enjoy your ancestors,